October 27, 2004

The Conservation and Natural Resources Advisory Council (CNRAC) held their public meeting Wednesday, October 27, 2004, in Room 105 First Floor Conference Room of the Rachel Carson State Office Building, Harrisburg, PA.

MEMBERS PRESENT

Bill opened the meeting at 10:00 a.m.

WELCOME

Bill called the Conservation and Natural Resources Advisory Council to order.  He thanked all of the members and public for their attendance.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Bill asked for approval of the 09/22/04 meeting minutes.  Randy made the motion to accept the minutes and LeeRoy seconded the motion.  Minutes were approved as written.  

CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT

Bill began his report by publicly recognizing the regional field trip team members for our 2004 field trip last month in south central Pennsylvania led by Randy, LeeRoy, and Eric and for providing the Council with a most informative, educational, and productive experience.  He also recognized the successful panel discussion at the public meeting.  Westsylvania received a special thank you for their outstanding efforts, resulting in one of the Council’s most successful field trips.  He also thanked the DCNR staff for responding to issues while on the tours or meetings.  He assured the Council that Kurt would be sending out thank you letters to the speakers, hosts, and the folks that we interacted with, from elected officials to the chamber people, and to the citizens, followed by a regional report highlighting the tour of our findings and recommendations.  It will be presented to the Council for their review and approval before being published.

Randy spoke on behalf of Westsylvania.  He said we thought it would be appropriate to introduce an idea that he hopes will carry through to future years.  We put together a basket of products and crafts of artists that are produced in Westsylvania and raffled it during the opening dinner reception.  Tom Kerr won the basket.  The proceeds from the Council members added up to $230.  Because of what was inclusive in this basket, Tom made an additional donation, changing the total to $255.  He said that there was a lot of thought put into those finely crafted gifts which also represented a lot of experience.  He congratulated all the work they are doing out there.  A letter, including a check of $255, was sent to the Pennsylvania Parks and Forests Foundation supporting their mission. 

Bill thanked all the Council members and their families who participated in the field trip.  Taking four to five days out of your very busy schedules is significant and extraordinary in these busy times.  It was felt that a message was sent to the Department, as well as to the Johnstown region, that we are very interested, very caring, and concerned for the natural resources and conservation issues they are facing in that part of Pennsylvania. 

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR’S REPORT

Kurt handed out a rough draft of the regional report.  He asked that the Council review the report and get back to him within the next few weeks with any suggestions, additions, or corrections.  He hopes Council will get this report ready for a formal adoption at the December 1st Council meeting.

He concurred with Bill on sending out thank you letters to all those involved in the field trip.  This, however, was done, with the exception of the Westsylvania staff people.  They deserved a special thank you.  A thank you card was being circulated for Council members to sign.  A box of Hershey chocolate bars were purchased for the staff in Rob McCombie's office in Johnstown, as well as a letter addressed to Rob.  All three were given to Randy for him to distribute with his return to Westsylvania.  Both Kurt and Randy commented on their outstanding job.

Kurt touched base on next year's field trip.  Meg Welker and Allen Sachse are going to be assisting Council staff with the planning of the 2005 field trip.  It is possible that the field trip may be as soon as late spring or summer.  What the issues are and when to best address them in a specific region helps determine the selection of the month.  Steve suggested having three or four dates and see what works best with everyone.

AUDIENCE INTRODUCTION AND COMMENT PERIOD   

Brook Lenker, DCNR - Education Communications and Partnership; Mike Krempasky, DCNR - Office of Policy and Legislation; Rick Carlson, DCNR - Office of Policy and Legislation, Roger Fickes, DCNR - Bureau of State Parks; Rex Lord, DCNR - Bureau of State Parks; Bob Frye - Tribune Review; Patrick Henderson, Senator Mary Jo White’s Office; Sue Wilson, DEP - CAC

CAC REPORT

Sue Wilson, Executive Director of the CAC, reported that the CAC September meeting was cancelled due to flood issues.  There is a new Council member, Bruce Tetkoskie, who replaced Brian Hill.  

The projects being worked on are public participation.  An outreach committee has been working fairly intensely for about a year now on improvements to DEP's use of the advisory committees.  DEP has about 35 advisory committees looking at various issues.  They work with the policy office on a joint project to make general recommendations on how those committees’ participation can be approved.  That is an ongoing effort.  That same committee also had a brief discussion in their meeting last week on Senate Bill 1040, which is Senator White's bill that would reinstitute the PA Center for Environmental Education.  The specific issue discussed was an amendment that has been floated and would put two CAC members on the board of that Center so the committee and Council can talk about specific aspects.

The Water Committee continues to participate on discussions about the storm water policy and concerns that there is a perception that is more than a policy.  It is a requirement and specific focus on trying to infiltrate storm water as opposed to infiltration being the preferred option.  There is still a perception that the Department is trying to require infiltration of a two-year storm event all across the Commonwealth.  That is not the case.  The Department has tried to clarify that with conservation districts and DEP regional offices.

On-lot septic systems is another issue.  On-lot water management has land use implications in that the way it is currently managed as on-lot septic, and even alternatives to the conventional system, does put additional pressure on farmland because those are the lands that infiltrate.  They are trying to work with the Department on coming up with technology verification.  They have announced a new process for technology verification that would be more efficient than the conventional systems.

Some months ago CAC looked at the issue of sand and gravel dredging in the Ohio and Allegheny rivers.  The U.S. Fish and Wildlife just came out with its mussel survey looking into a few particular areas for endangered mussel species.  CAC’s Integrated Projects Committee is looking at some new questions that they hope to ask the Joint Conservation Committee to include a new public mind survey.  Environmental standards just issued some comments on grayfields -- mining areas, trying to promote further reclamation and release of those areas.

Bill asked if DEP will be working with others on a plan to address some of the storm water runoff.  Sue replied that they have issued a new storm water management policy.  Storm water clearly increased due to development.  Traditionally, it has been managed by collecting it all together and then managed from a retention pond, for example.  It is a water quality issue because with that runoff comes pollutants from washing off our streets or rooftops.  It then gets dumped into a stream.  The focus of the storm water policy is to try to better manage our storm water by not creating it in the first place.  Better on-site structural management so that the water is retained is one of the best management policies.  A business could collect that storm water and reuse it either as gray water or for fire control so that it is not piped into a stream or piped into a retention pond and then dumped out.  Another discussion item is flood plain delineation.  Many of those delineations were made in the 1960s, and there is more storm water now.  If those delineations are not accurate any longer, there will be environmental implications.  The Department is looking into that.

Bill reported that a Philadelphia suburb, Upper Darby, was flooded out three times starting with Hurricane Charlie --- PEMA came in and DEP was there.  There needs to be more of a plan for addressing that in the future and what best practices could be suggested or recommended for that area, as well as across the Commonwealth.  Sue stated that DEP is looking into all of this.  Tom Kerr commented that the key is education.  

LeeRoy thanked DEP for free water sample testing kits after the recent floods.  

PENNSYLVANIA WILDS

Cindy Dunn thanked the Council for the switch on the agenda, giving Mike Krempasky allotted time for his presentation on Pennsylvania WILDS.  This presentation was a culmination of years of work around nature-based tours and a viewing in the north central region of our state.  It may help to pull together the lumber heritage work that people have been involved with, the elk viewing, and seeing marketing and the ads coming out of the Department of Community and Economic Development, as well as DEP. 

Before his presentation, Mike gave the history of Pennsylvania WILDS.  He stated that after his involvement in last year’s trip to the elk range, the Secretary and Governor received letters from the legislators near the elk range, in support of promoting and protecting the natural and cultural heritage of the north central region.  After reviewing recommendations, it was decided that what was needed was to launch a much broader effort comprising more than central Pennsylvania.  The Secretary has been very instrumental in gaining the interest and support of the Governor, as well as other agencies, which results in this presentation.  The Governor asked them to look more broadly than just the five or six counties in the elk region.  It is now defined as a boundary of 12 counties in north central Pennsylvania, consisting of over 2.1 million acres of public lands in Pennsylvania WILDS, that includes 27 state parks with over 1,200 campsites and 1.3 million acres of state forest land.  The Allegheny National Forest has over 500,000 acres.  There are 50 state game lands with nearly 300,000 acres.  Ten major rail/trail systems have been developed over the last decade with over 134 miles of biking and walking trails.  Within the bureaus of Forestry and State Parks alone, there are over 1,100 miles of designated places.   A tremendous base of assets for recreation and a tremendous opportunity to make use of the multiple use areas lie within this region.  This region is now considered to be one of the most wonderful hardwood forests in the world, a region in which we can use to promote tourism and also educate people to the wonderful assets in this region.

The Governor asked them to form a cabinet-level task force to look at the opportunities that they have here to grow outdoor tourism across the region consistent with the mission, to encourage the development of additional private services, lodging, and other products which can be bought by tourists.  Finally, he asked us to accelerate the implementation of the Elk Watching and Major Tourism Plan.  While Secretary DiBerardinis is the lead cabinet official, the task force involves the PA Tourist Office, PennDOT, Game Commission, DEP, Fish and Boat Commission, area legislators – Congressman John Peterson and Representative Dan Surra, and stakeholders.  There are approximately 18 folks on the task force.  The Governor asked Ted Eubanks, who was a consultant for the Elk Watching and Major Tourism Plan, to be the technical support for this task force.

The presentation encourages sustainable tourism, expanding interpretive facilities, and stimulates private accommodations and services.  The task force is looking at how to market the region for development of business incentives in the region.  An aggressive approach is needed to clean up acid mine drainage.  They are looking into what will attract people to the region in terms of natural resources and private infrastructure.  They are also looking at developing a cooperative marketing framework with all the tourism promotion agencies across the 12-county area.  The Pennsylvania Tourism Office is led by Mickey Rowley.  A single marketing partnership organization has been formed which will receive special funding from the state.

Bob Martin helped coordinate the Lumber Heritage region and develop the heritage interpretive plan.  The task force is helping to market appropriate heritage themes, as well as outdoor recreation resources, by interpretive media, signage, scenic drives, and possibly building a series of kiosks explaining the history and culture of the area.  FERMATA, Inc., is the consultant overseeing this project.

The Governor asked them to look very closely at the private tourism sector of this region, helping communities who need an economic boost.  This is being accomplished by getting an inventory of the region's accommodations, restaurants, and various services, that are provided to tourists currently.  They are looking to promote the special financing that is available for tourism ventures through the Governor's economic stimulus programs, the First Industries Fund.  It is hoped that that study will be finished shortly.

The largest water pollution problem is right in the middle of the WILDS, the West Branch of the Susquehanna drainage.  There are nearly 1,000 miles of streams that are polluted through acid mine drainage, and over 117 miles of the main stem of the West Branch of the Susquehanna is dead.  DCNR, DEP, and Trout Unlimited are discussing at the highest levels the possibilities of taking more aggressive action to clean up the West Branch.

Finally, the Elk Scenic Drive recommendations were implemented, having a 127-mile scenic drive that pulls people off Route 80 in the east and the west, bringing them through the region and distributing them through 23 sites along this roadway.  The thought is to better distribute visitation in the area and to keep people longer there to spend more money.  A system of parking areas of about 20 cars should accommodate about 45 people for optimum viewing of wildlife and including a beautiful little trail that is handicapped accessible.  Along with this will be a discussion on good locations for lodging.

Steve voiced his concern regarding the possibility of private entrepreneurs having business taken away from them.  Mike replied that the task force is looking at promoting private entrepreneurs' accommodations and services all across the Pennsylvania WILDS.

Secretary DiBerardinis commented that given the size of the region and the existing market, there are not enough overnight rooms.  The current infrastructure is too far behind the demand for overnight rooms, especially that unique different experience nobody else is providing.  A room analysis has been done by the tourism and marketing experts who clearly indicates this availability exists and can be utilized.  The concept for these overnight accommodations is for 25-40 rooms.  With the lack of infrastructure there and business, the idea is to push Pennsylvania wood products and have a whole retail line behind this with restaurants and places to stay.

Bill added that the work groups within the Council are being redesigned.  One of these is known as Recreation and Tourism.  He said that he is looking forward to hearing DCNR’s plans and working on this particular initiative with this work group.

The Secretary assured the Council, that regarding resource management, protocol has been well established.  Mike continued by stating there is the joint help patrol, DCNR rangers, Game Commission officers, and the State Police patrolling in this collaborative effort, as well as in terms of improving habitat of which over $1 million worth of improvements have been made and will continue over a four-year period.  It includes the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Game Commission.

A question was asked about the sense for the total time line, cost estimates, and sources, and whether or not that commitment level by the Department would have the effect of displacing other programs of this kind.  The Secretary answered that DCNR is in the early stages of the assessment (four to five months into an 18-month assessment) of our parks and forests relative to what are the appropriate programmatic activities that those parks and forests can handle, what is appropriate, and what are the carrying loads.

The Governor has already put in very specific line items in the capital budget to support those elements depicted in the presentation.  The final piece is what will be the demands on DCNR that will be part of our grant dollars.  Also, there are seven tourist promotion agencies that are in this partnership.

STATE PARK OVERNIGHT ACCOMMODATIONS

Cindy Dunn briefed the Council on Roger Fickes’ staff, as well as her staff, on the advanced discussion of overnight accommodation expansion in the state parks.  She then introduced Roger.  He began his presentation by highlighting what the current choices of overnight options are in state parks and then how to explore them.  Demographics are changing and not all families have camping equipment.  There is a demand on outdoor recreation which continues to grow and diversify, and the Bureau wants to extend the enjoyment of the natural resources to connect more people to the natural environment and to increase their internal education efforts.

What has been coined as inns and lodges are amenities to the natural resource.  They are not the primary attraction.  They want to increase economic opportunities to the extent that it can.  Visitor use of commodity goods and services are some things that are trying to be promoted.  Included in the overnight options are camping for backpackers and campgrounds without modern facilities to the more modern tent and trailer camping sites.  As they expand and upgrade the 7,000-site inventory of campsites, they will be able handle recreation vehicles more easily and will provide a little bit more amenity to the camping public.  Also offered are the camping cottages (wooden walled structures with a hard roof and floor with no restrooms or showers), yurts (tent-style with countertop, cooking stove, refrigerator, and no indoor plumbing), rustic and modern cabins, special cabins (converted residences), and the American Youth Hostel System (dormitory-style accommodations with separate quarters for males and females).

Moving to the next step is characterized as an inn with 10 to 20 rooms that offer breakfast.  This is not a full-service restaurant that would go in here, keeping in mind specifically the surrounding natural and recreational resources that are the draw for this.  The second name or item is a lodge with environmentally friendly architecture and energy efficient.

Selection criteria are some of our preliminary thoughts on what the selection criteria might entail.  An existing natural recreation resource would be an attraction for people to come visit.  Infrastructure nearby would be important to efficiently spend dollars that they will get to ultimately construct these.  If the infrastructure is there, that will save them a whole lot.  They want to explore partnerships, private investment and/or management, which are not uncharacteristic with lodges or even the other kinds of accommodations that we have in state parks right now.

Transportation access is certainly a positive impact on the local economy.  Designated natural areas and environmentally sensitive areas will be protected.  View sheds are very important and will also be protected as best as they can be.  The expectations are to expand the base of state park users, improve the user experience, broaden public participation and support, connect more people to nature, and make some additional revenues both internally and in the surrounding community.

LeeRoy asked Roger if group camping is different than a youth hostel group.  Roger clarified the difference by responding that, normally with group camping, there are multiple structures, like a dining area that Boy Scouts would use.  It is not generally open to the public.  Youth hostels do not have this.

Steve asked that in the case of the inns where it says maybe a restaurant is included, are we thinking franchises?  Roger responded that it may have a kitchen that could provide space for a caterer that would come in for a special event or to provide breakfast.   A full-service restaurant is not being considered at this point.

Bill questioned whether elder hostelling was ADA accessible.  Roger replied that everything done now is ADA accessible.

Eric asked how DCNR envisioned the sitting of possible lodges.  Is it to be with private industry?  Roger said that now we want to have enough control over this ourselves to see how it is going to work or fit in with the recreation that we offer in state parks.  That is the reason to stay small.             

DEPARTMENT REPORT

Secretary DiBerardinis began his report by pointing out that what was most important in the WILDS concept and overnight accommodations is relative to the mission and the process.  The Secretary was asked if there is a mechanism in place to use the revenue coming into this program to continue maintenance staffing.  He replied that there is no formal agreement around the revenue sharing.  They hope and expect to strike that agreement in the near future. 

On the other subject of Pennsylvania WILDS, it was learned that DCNR staff is behind with the local community in terms of projecting this idea and including them in these discussions.  It was clear from the locals that more needs to be done in including them.  From that process, Cindy Dunn and Brook Lenker got involved in setting up open houses in November and December for those people to learn and ask questions.

The consultant who is doing the recreation and outdoor program assessment in that part of the state will be in town on November 17 for a meeting.  Interested groups, like The Sierra Club and the Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs, will be involved in that meeting.

The Secretary had a chance that morning to quickly review some of the action plan priorities presented to him from the Council.  He noted to the Council that the Department still has to get back to them with the work plans.  They are going through the final edits now and will be done in a few weeks.  An executive staff person has been placed in charge of authority and accountability of these plans and will be announced to the Council at that time.  There has also been an executive staff person placed in charge of more than one work group based on their bureau and their work.  A lead person has also been assigned on each work team, upper level manager who is also responsible and has the authority to drive the plan and also the accountability for reaching the committee with its work team, as it is determined.

Regarding Growing Greener, the Secretary announced that the Green Ribbon Commission met about two weeks ago.  The Secretary provided testimony to the Commission from the administration perspective to create or provide the data to justify the need.  In the debate it was discussed how much is an appropriate investment and how is it funded.  It is anticipated that another meeting of the Commission will take place.

The Secretary would like to see before the session closes out a vote that would move our proposal forward with all the input and the negotiations and then get something that is generally reflective of our proposal before the voters in May.

Randy stated that he has been asked, like others, to host a town meeting in certain areas at which time members of the Commission are asked to come and anyone in the community that has an interest or a need or sees some benefit to the Growing Greener program to explain their needs and what they would like to see in this program.  Also asked were legislators who are not on the Commission but are local to the Commonwealth.

If approved by the populous in May, the Secretary was asked what would be the impact on the grant cycle.  It has been the experience of the Secretary that in the city, it is voted upon, and if the referendum has been approved, the state has to go to Wall Street.  It takes about four to six months to get all that done.  The bonds are sold and the revenue becomes available.  There will be some kind of sequence of the money over a four-five-year period.  His assumption is that the reality of the money being available will be in January 2006.  

MEETING ADJOURNED

LeeRoy Vatter made the motion for adjournment.  Sue Thompson seconded the motion.  Motion carried. 

NEXT MEETING DATE

The next meeting is scheduled for 10:00 a.m., December 1, 2004, in Room 105 First-Floor Conference Room of the Rachel Carson State Office Building in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Notice of the October meeting was published in a newspaper of general circulation in Dauphin County and mailed to individuals and offices in compliance with the Sunshine Act (1986-84).  These minutes constitute the official record of the Conservation and Natural Resources Advisory Council; no official transcript is provided.

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